now will be a lot better, that innovation is happening faster now than ever before. >> when you look at that kind of improvement do, you think that technology companies will be as vibrant and dynamic and, you know, kind of moving the u.s. economy as they were in the '80s and '90s when you were running microsoft? >> oh, absolutely. the idea of how do you revolutionalize education, we're just at the beginning of that. the progress we're making on a malaria vaccine, that stuff is happening in a fantastic way. the technology companies, you know, speech recognition, visual recognition, that -- those tools that empower us, let us collaborate and create, those are improving at an amazing pace. >> but, you know, there are people, like economists robert borden and tyler who have written these papers and books who say, look, you're having technological progress, but it's not like it was before.